
## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

Hello everybody! My name is David, I'm 31 years old and I'm from Madrid, Spain.

I've always been in love with the world of mobile applications, already with 15/16 years old I loved downloading and testing applications of all kinds, but my studies were different... I finally decided to study Electronic Engineering, where my favorite subjects were all related to programming. I finished my degree and worked as a Hardware Engineer for 7 years, the last year I studied Swift and SwiftUI while working for 10 months, and here was the time to take the big leap and bet 100% on one of my passions.

Today it's been more than 1 year and I have launched 4 apps to the AppStore.

![](/images/interviews/david/weekeats_showcase.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

My first app was [Gratefully](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gratefully-gratitude-journal/id1645844107), a gratitude journal, but so far the most successful has been WeekEats, a meal planner.

The idea came from trying to cover the problem my girlfriend and I had with planning weekly meals, when we were simply using the notes app. There are many apps that offer you an already integrated meal plan that covers your needs and so on, but we just wanted to simply indicate what we were going to eat. So why not do it myself? And that's where [WeekEats](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/meal-planning-recipe-keeper/id6448211124) comes in, whose main functionality is to offer simple, visual and useful meal planning. I am very happy to have been evolving the application with the needs of the users, I noticed a big change by including a "Feedback" and "feature request" section. At least, you make sure that you will be able to help people who need it.

When thinking about new ideas, I like to start from the needs that my friends or family may have, this way I make sure that I am helping someone.

## How is your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

Currently I have modified my daily routine to try to be more conscious, grateful and increase my happiness.

I start my mornings doing a small yoga and meditation session, then I have breakfast and review the planning I had planned for that day.

I try to dedicate 6 hours to the development of applications and 1 hour to review statistics.

## How do you launch and market your app?

Currently I release my apps only in the AppStore and announce them on Twitter. I have tried to create TikTok and Instagram accounts for each app, but it involves work that I can't sustain in time, so I try to publish once a week in those accounts. Not successful at this moment.

My main focus right now is on improving the App Store Optimization (ASO) to get better visibility and thus a higher number of downloads.

## What are the future plans for your app?

The first task I have on the agenda is to do testing with a more comprehensive onboarding, allowing the user to get to know the application better.

Then I would like to implement Widgets and improve the user recipe categories.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Being patient, I think, is something important that I am not yet able to internalize. We all want quick results, but everything takes time.

Also, something I already do before making an app, is to look in terms of ASO if the app could have a future.

Regarding people who are studying now, I would encourage them to create their first app as soon as possible, even if they don't launch it, but that's, in my opinion, when you learn the most.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

For me there are two key actions.

- • Improve ASO: Sorry to repeat myself, but I have suffered and learned that it is super important. Research and test over time.

- • Ask feedback from users: From an early stage of the application, I think that having feedback from your users, what they like or what they don't like, is essential to mark your next task.
Some optional bonus questions

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

The app I'm most fond of and proud of is Gratefully, it's a gratitude journal. Just before I quit my job, I went through a rough patch and having a gratitude journal helped me to know and appreciate the little things around us. So, the first application I wanted to build was a gratitude journal, which I hope is helping a lot of people.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

I want to mention 3 of them, that are big creators and better persons.

[@FloWritesCode](https://twitter.com/FloWritesCode): Have a YT channel very helpful and he explain all perfectly.

[@matteo_spada](https://twitter.com/matteo_spada): He shares a lot of ASO tips and also have a great tool for this purpose.

[SebastianRoehl](https://twitter.com/SebastianRoehl): Very good example of building in public.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

Create a X account, follow the #buildinpublic community and start learning and helping others.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did.

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

We all want quick results, but everything takes time

David Manso


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

I’m 47 living in Copenhagen with my girlfriend and our children of 12 and 16. 

I'm a long time programmer making my money on the computer since the mid 90s doing game development for Commodore Amiga and PCs back when those still ran DOS. I had worked a number of places when completing my computer science education in 2004 and I was certain I would rather build my own products than work for other people having already reached my quota for mediocre management.

Programming is extra fun when you get to make high level product decisions and with only one work-life I need to make the best of it. With a few years of experience you become immensely valuable to any company employing you and it seems natural to give that advantage to your own company.

But this was easier said than done. I tried to make a living selling software libraries but had trouble finding buyers. Consulting kept me fed the next years but this started to change around 2009 where I had moderate success with an iPhone drawing app made for my youngest child. 

I did a few more apps that never found their audience but [Working Copy](https://workingcopy.app/), my Git client from 2014 showed potential and over the next years I was able to make it profitable enough to quit consulting. I now had enough free time and focus to develop a two-way syncing mechanism for SSH servers and this was the backbone of [Secure ShellFish](https://secureshellfish.app/) putting a server filesystem in the Files app.

![](/images/interviews/anders/shellfish.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

I look for app ideas that I would want to use myself, where I think my knowledge and experience makes me suited for the task and where I expect other users to appreciate the work. 

There had been requests from Working Copy users for deeper integration with SSH servers but bolting on SSH features would make the app a strange mix of Git and SSH client. 

But I had experience with the Files app APIs and the SSH protocol.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

My work day is structured for long stretches of uninterrupted time for deep programming work.

I start out by handling user support before I leave for the office. This means I can immediately start programming at the office and I try hard to ignore emails and phone calls for a few hours. After lunch I do additional support since my focus is already off but most days I'm able to regain my focus and do a few extra hours of programming.

At the end of the workday I make a note of what I want to achieve the next day; another simple trick to increase my chances of starting the next day well.


## How do you launch and market your app?

I'm not good at this but I try to drum up interest on Twitter and Mastodon showing screen recordings and inviting people to participate in TestFlight betas.

All my apps are developer tools with small specialised audiences and getting App Store editorial or websites to mention the apps is a struggle.

## What are the future plans for your app?

Right now I'm working to add support for authentication agents and agent forwarding to Secure ShellFish. I have been envious of the terminal echo prediction in systems like Mosh and I'm working to bring something similar to my terminal at the SSH level.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Being indie can be lonely. 

It has helped me to share an office with friends even though we don’t work in the same field. I also participate in local iOS meet-ups and I'm part of a small indie developer Slack.

I can go a few months working alone but more than that and I slowly become more and more quirky. 

This is common advice and is only possible when things are going well but having money for 6 months of expenses removes a lot of anxiety and will in most ways make the indie life just as economically secure as a regular job.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I wasted years doing consulting wishing I was indie because I didn't make enough money on my own apps. Consulting made it hard to put in sufficient work to make the apps profitable dragging me away from what I wanted. As soon as I was able to put in 100% time on my own apps staying profitable became a lot easier. 

I regret not cutting down on expenses in my younger years as this would have allowed me to bootstrap much faster. Controlling expenses becomes a lot harder once you have children.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

[Gus Mueller](https://shapeof.com/) the developer of Acorn the image editor for Mac is a huge inspiration. He is a shining example that one person can make extremely deep and useful software maintaining and updating to keep it relevant for many years. 

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Secure ShellFish](https://secureshellfish.app/)
- [Working Copy](https://workingcopy.app/)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

I look for app ideas that I would want to use myself

Anders Borum


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

From the very first day of learning programming, I dream of building apps that help people with their daily routines. I've started learning Java programming language to develop my first app for a mobile phone supporting the J2ME platform. That was my first mobile app, allowing easy tracking of today's tasks on a mobile phone.

I usually build apps for my needs and share them on the App Store whenever I feel the app can be valuable for others. I made the first version of CardioBot as soon as I owned the Apple Watch and found that Apple Health provides basic heart rate functionality.

My life has changed significantly after becoming an indie. Nowadays, I spend a lot of time on keyword research(ASO) and revenue optimization. I don't spend all my time on coding like before because I have to market my apps now. But I enjoy coding and try to spend more time on it.

![](/images/interviews/majid/watch.png)
 
## How do you launch and market your app?

There is no best way, so I use as many marketing channels as possible. I send copies to websites like 9to5mac and iMore. Reddit and ProductHunt also work, so it always makes sense to share a post there.

## What are the future plans for your app?

I'm happy Apple Health has become available on the iPad this year. The next must-have feature for my apps will be a nice iPad layout.
 
## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

The one thing I've learned during my indie career is that you should always listen to your users. You can do it through analytics, A/B testing, or other solutions. But you should always try different things and check what your users love more.

What really changed for me is how I analyze the market. Nowadays, I do my ASO research before releasing or even building an app to understand if it makes any sense to share with others.

![](/images/interviews/majid/phone.jpeg)
 
## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

[Kriss Smolka](https://twitter.com/ksmolka) was the first indie developer I met in person who inspired me to work on my own apps. His success story was an excellent example for me.
 
## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I recommend using subscription growth tools like Glassfy and never underestimate them because they provide vital information about your users that App Store Connect doesn't offer. Another tool I use daily is the Astro app for keyword research.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Glassfy](https://glassfy.io/)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Majid Jabrayilov


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

I'm 44 years old and live in Stockholm, Sweden with my wife and two daughters. I've worked with app development for iOS for 10+ years, after working almost as long as a full stack developer with focus on web, backend (.NET), databases and REST-based APIs.

I've loved hand-held experiences since the Game & Watch days, and joined a company that developed .NET-based PDA applications for mobile workforces in the mid 2000s. When the iPhone was released a few years later, I immediately knew that this was what I'd been waiting for all these years.

Since I was still working as a .NET consultant at that time, I had to get to know the Mac ecosystem and learn iOS app development in my spare time. My first iOS app was a web app that used Safari's location capabilities to store geo-tagged items in local storage, then fetch the closest one when the user opened the app.

Building web-based apps on my new, white MacBook was a fun start, but I always knew I had to go native. Objective-C was a hard pill to swallow, but thanks to iTunes U and Paul Hegarty's Stanford app development courses, I eventually felt ready to convert the web app to a native one.

After a year or so, I got my first mobile lead job at the Swedish eBay brand, where I was in charge of the company's iOS and Android apps. I've kept sticking to native ever since and try to keep up with the latest stuff, like switching from Obj-C to Swift immediately when it launched, and from UIKit to SwiftUI in its first rough year.

As a parallel track to app development, I started building open-source libraries to reuse and share general things I came up with while building my own apps. This eventually led me to create a library called KeyboardKit as I created my first custom keyboard together with a friend.

As KeyboardKit evolved, and being quite a niche thing, some companies started reaching out to me regarding freelance work. This eventually led me to quit my day job and start my own company, in which I combine freelancing with building my own apps and open-source projects, and a few commercial SDKs.

 
## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

My first keyboard app was a result of a digital artist friend of mine reaching out, asking if I'd be interested in creating a sticker keyboard for her. The app was meant to behave like the Kim Kardashian sticker keyboard app, but with my friend's goth metal-inspired artwork.

The keyboard SDK idea came naturally, as we decided to create a second keyboard and wanted to share logic between the two. The keyboard SDK then became an itch I kept scratching, since the native APIs lack so much functionality and the keyboard domain kept unveiling more and more interesting complexities as I went further down the rabbit hole.

Regarding my other apps and projects, I just work on whatever I need at the moment or find interesting. I don't have a set strategy for what project to spend time on, but rather work on projects that currently have traction, where I have user or customer feedback to focus on, or where I need things myself.

I however need to improve this process, since I now have a company that is meant to make money. For instance, I've just spent a couple of days on a completely free app, and if you count the time spent and take my regular hourly rate into consideration, you realize that it's a pretty expensive hobby.

![](/images/interviews/daniel/hero.png)

 
## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

I plan my work in Trello and GitHub issues, and have a long personal roadmap, as well as client work that I need to combine. I've put a lot of time into streamlining my own web and app projects, by creating shared structures that help me minimize context switching when working on multiple projects in parallel.

Client work always goes first, then customer and user feedback. I then work on improving my existing projects, and only occasionally build something new. I then always tend to skip the last important step to market what I create, and therefore make very little sales.

Jokes aside, I struggle with marketing and always tend to find new technical challenges to solve instead of spending time on it. I have however started putting a lot of time into improving my various websites, and have started looking more into SEO and ASO as well.

 
## How do you launch and market your app?

I release many things, all the time. New app updates, new SDK versions, new websites, blogs, articles, etc. etc. But...I struggle with reachout, and have noticed a considerable engagement dip in social media during 2023. I realize that I need to develop new strategies, rather than just tweeting and tooting when I release new things.

 
## What are the future plans for your app?

I will keep improving some apps that I've just released, and will try to merge many of my smaller and way too old apps into more capable ones, bumping them to the latest standards when I do. I will also create new, smaller apps with a single, clear business case, and try to find more revenue streams than putting my faith into a few big bets.

 
## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

My recurring mistake is to over and over again spread myself too thin by working on too many things at the same time. I would suggest sticking to one or two things, and making them as good as you can, instead of working on tons of parallel projects that just turn out decent. 

 
## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I don't really regret working on so many different things per se, but it has often spread me thin and brought me to the brink of burning out. The reason why I don't regret it, is that it often has been very fun and taught me a lot...but I sometimes think about what it would have been like if I had focused on one or two things at a time, instead of ten or twenty.

If I could go back, I'd also start with a business case for every new app or project that I started working on, and say no to more projects with others, since that has most often been the ones adding stress and frustration to the mix.


## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

I am quite proud of most of my projects, although KeyboardKit and RichTextKit are probably the ones where I've struggled the most and eventually managed to deliver something that seems to help people handle pretty complicated things in an easier way.

 
## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

There are SO many truly inspiring indie developers who brighten my Twitter and Mastodon timelines on a daily basis, so instead of risking to forget some of them, I will settle with mentioning how [@jordibruin](https://twitter.com/jordibruin) and [@twannl](https://twitter.com/twannl) are two exceptional developers who constantly keep delivering new exciting things, how I enjoy following [@malinsundberg](https://twitter.com/malinsundberg) and [@airkai](https://twitter.com/airkai) working on Mercury Weather and many other cool things while still finding the time to bring the community together, and finally how I love seeing [@jagcesar](https://twitter.com/jagcesar) and [@fosiadesign](https://twitter.com/fosiadesign) exploring new worlds and platform capabilities together. And you of course ;) 

 
## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I am deeply impressed by [Paul Hudson](https://twitter.com/twostraws)'s tireless and ongoing efforts to provide the Swift and SwiftUI community with constant updates and learnings, so if you're starting out with Swift and SwiftUI or just need a boost, do check out [Hacking with Swift](https://www.hackingwithswift.com/) for its endless amount of amazing content.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Stanford University's CS193p](https://cs193p.sites.stanford.edu/)
- [KeyboardKit](https://keyboardkit.com/)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Stick to one or two things, and make them as good as you can

Daniel Saidi


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

I'm Axel, a 35-year-old guy from France, currently living in Paris with my wife and 2-year-old son.

After graduating from engineering school, I worked in startups as a project manager and later as a product leader in a startup studio. Working closely with developers on various products sparked my curiosity about app development. I started coding for personal projects and it became a beloved hobby.

Two years ago, I made a significant shift. I left product management to fully embrace indie app development. What I love is the whole product creation process - from generating ideas, designing user-friendly interfaces, and coding, to handling business, marketing, and user support.

![](/images/interviews/axel/hero.jpg)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

I got the idea for my latest app, Tizipizi, when I worried about missing content from Apple WWDC23. I realized the iOS built-in world clock app didn't cut it for checking different times conveniently. So, I decided to create my own app. I shared a TestFlight link on social media for early testers and the feedback I received showed me that time zones are a pain and people are eager for ways to simplify it.

My idea process is simple. I start with issues I face during the day and ask, "How could an app help me?" and "What could this app replace or improve?”. Then, I see if people I know have the same problem. First, I confirm the problem, and only then do I think about solutions. I create a basic version to test if it works well and offers sufficient value. To understand more about users and their needs, I spread the word about the app.

![](/images/interviews/axel/Tizipizi_convert.jpg)

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

These days, I structure my day around my son's schedule. I wake up at around 6:30 am and spend time with him until I drop him off at the nursery around 8:15 am. After that, I take a short walk in a nearby park to catch up on social media and get in the right mindset. I typically start working at my desk by 9 am, although I admit I don't have a strict plan (which I might need for better productivity). My work pattern depends on where I am in the app development cycle and what tasks are at hand.

I find that I'm most productive with coding in the morning, leaving design, marketing, and business tasks for later in the day or evening. Some days, I focus solely on coding as I work on big features. I usually work until 5 pm, then take a 2-hour break to spend time with my child (picking him up from the nursery and being with him until bedtime). After dinner, I often put in a bit more work.

During weekends and holidays, I do work during the day, but my main focus remains on family time.

## How do you launch and market your app?

I started by having a private beta with friends and family—people I'm close to and who would give honest feedback. After that, I opened up the beta with a public TestFlight link so anyone could try it. Finally, I launched the app on the App Store.

Here's what I did at launch:

- ✨ Social Networks: I used social networks to announce the app release. I posted content prepared in advance, like text and visuals, highlighting the app's key features and best use cases. This helped people understand the app's purpose and potential.

- ✨ Influencers: I reached out to fellow developers who were willing to amplify the app on social networks. For instance, developers like Steven Troughton-Smith and Donny Wals were supportive. They helped increase visibility.

- ✨ Product Hunt: I made a [ProductHunt post](https://www.producthunt.com/products/tizipizi-for-iphone#tizipizi-for-iphone) using prepared materials like hero images and app descriptions.

- ✨ Journalists: I created a [Press Kit](https://tizipizi.app/press) and contacted journalists to inform them about the app. I offered them a subscription so they could fully experience the app. I targeted tech/Apple news writers but also those in the app's domain (productivity/travellers).

- ✨ Apple Editorial Team: I notified Apple about the app launch by submitting a form to the App Store editorial team. I emphasized what makes the app unique and highlighted any innovative technologies I used.

- ✨ TestFlight: I updated the TestFlight beta version to inform testers about the app's availability on the store. The update included a screen with a direct link to download the app.

I haven't used ads or partnered with influencers on platforms like TikTok or Instagram yet, but I'm considering it for future updates. [Emmanuel Crouvisier](https://twitter.com/emcro) reportedly had success with this approach.

## What are the future plans for your app?

Here are my main goals for the upcoming weeks:

- ✨ Understanding User Needs: Instead of building an app that nobody wants, I aim to learn more about my initial users. This involves understanding why they use the app, the problems it solves for them, how they use it, their satisfaction, potential improvements, and more. To gather this information, I plan to include an optional form within the app for users to anonymously share their thoughts.

- ✨ Gathering Feature Requests: Alongside incorporating new platforms and technologies, I'm interested in exploring additional features. These could include full calendar integration or considering weekends/vacations in the meeting planner. To prioritize what to add next, I intend to allow users to upvote feature requests and propose ideas. This approach should enhance user satisfaction, retention, and encourage more users to become paying customers.

- ✨ Enhancing App Store Visibility (ASO): My initial ASO efforts involve localizing the App Store metadata in all available languages. This localization is expected to enhance the app's discoverability and searchability. Subsequently, I plan to optimize the app's ratings and reviews. Currently, I prompt users to leave reviews after specific actions in the app, such as adding clocks/groups or sharing times, but I want to make it easier to rate the app. Increasing visibility in the store should lead to higher user acquisition.

- ✨ Aiming for Apple Editorial Team Feature: As previously mentioned, early adoption of Apple technologies increases the chance of being featured. I'm working on better integration into the Apple ecosystem by supporting more platforms like macOS, WatchOS, offering widgets, and adding shortcuts with app intents. Such a feature could lead to a significant boost in user acquisition.

- ✨ Gaining Press Coverage: I'm aiming to attract journalists' attention by showcasing my app's integration of new technologies. When I adopt these technologies in future releases, I'll make sure to inform the press about them.

- ✨ Refining the Business Model: Currently, the app offers an optional in-app subscription that unlocks extra features. These include unlimited clocks/groups and renaming clocks, among other extra features. To refine this model, I plan to conduct A/B testing on feature availability, pricing, and introductory offers like free trials. This should help me optimize conversion rates and revenue.

- ✨ Language Translation: Although my initial users are primarily English-speaking professionals in a business context, I'm open to translating the app into other languages if there's demand. This would cater to users who prefer using the app in their native language.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Sure! Here are some practical tips for indie makers creating apps on Apple platforms and some general insights:

For Apple Platform App Development:

- ✨ Use Apple Resources: Make the most of Apple's developer resources, including documentation, code samples, tutorials, Slack workspaces, and Apple team members on social platforms like Mastodon. Utilize design resources like fonts and templates provided by Apple.

- ✨ Prioritize Native Components: While building your initial app version, stick to native components within Apple's SDKs unless they don't align with your app's UX goals. Native components offer benefits like automatic screen layout, multi-platform support, accessibility, localization, and dark mode.

- ✨ Engage with Apple Early: Inform Apple about your app's development even before launching. Early communication with Apple increases the chances of being featured, which can greatly impact your app's visibility.


General Tips:

- ✨ Focus on Marketing: Don't underestimate marketing. Consider how people will discover your app, what will attract them to try it, and how to best reach your target audience. Understand App Store Optimization (ASO) and its significance.

- ✨ Stay Patient and Persistent: Initial downloads and subscriptions might not meet your expectations. Embrace this process, be persistent, and don't fear failure. Learning from your journey is valuable.

- ✨ Expand Your Technical Knowledge: Continuously learn by reading documentation, blog posts, watching tutorials, and exploring existing apps. However, avoid overloading yourself with information that could hinder your focus and productivity.

- ✨ Know Your Audience: Whether solving your own problem or catering to others, understanding your user's needs is vital. Engage with them to gather insights.

- ✨ Build in Public: Sharing your progress publicly garners feedback, potentially solving challenges and refining ideas. Worry less about idea theft; the benefits of sharing usually outweigh the risks.

- ✨ Release Iteratively: Maintain motivation by shipping incremental updates. Regularly submitting improved versions to app stores can be a rewarding experience.

- ✨ Plan Your Business Model: Consider your app's pricing, ongoing costs (e.g., servers, services), future features, and content updates. For subscriptions, experiment with pricing and free trials using A/B testing.


## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

Looking back, I think I did so many things wrong! But mostly, I regret not taking seriously enough all the warnings I read here and there about publishing an app…

Not shipping earlier and more often due to:

- ✨ Over-Engineering: I tend to overcomplicate solutions, chasing perfection and pre-empting non-existent issues by overthinking scenarios. I now understand that "done is better than perfect." Instead of striving for complex solutions, simplicity could have been more effective. I didn’t need this new fancy way of splitting my app into independent packages to improve build times or ease code reusability. I didn’t need this new architecture to optimise tests or make the app more scalable. I didn’t need to plan for a step by step database migration when I only have one schema version. I didn’t need to spent hours optimising this part of the app when I don’t see any performance issues with a big dataset. I didn’t need to find a one-size-fit all solution for some edge cases early on. I didn’t need to rebuild this layout just because I found it nice in another app. Etc.

- ✨ Falling down the Rabbit Hole: I frequently fell into the trap of adding excessive features while developing existing ones. I struggled to define a clear MVP (Minimum Viable Product) and iteratively plan the app's development. I learned that an app evolves over time, making prioritization crucial.

- ✨ Lack of Focus: I often got sidetracked exploring various technologies, app features, and alternative UI designs that didn't contribute substantial value. Staying focused on core features would have been more beneficial.

- ✨ Insufficient Planning: I regret not having better planned the app's development with a structured release plan and tighter deadlines. I discovered that my most productive days coincided with deadlines, like new TestFlight releases or App Store submissions.

- ✨ Procrastinating Marketing: I realize I made the mistake of reaching out to the Apple editorial team and journalists after the app's launch. I now recognize that shipping the app is only a small aspect of the overall story.

- ✨ Not having thought about alternative business models: In hindsight, I think I may have missed potential revenue opportunities by not thoroughly exploring alternative business models. I wonder if my current subscription plans and pricing may not be optimal. Could they be too high or too low? Additionally, is the subscription model the best fit, or would a paid upfront app or non-consumable one-time purchase have yielded better results?


## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

Ten years ago, I launched my first iPhone app, Skipper, a boating logbook created to assist boat owners in simplifying activity recording at sea. Sailing on my parents' boat, I faced outdated equipment issues that needed a solution. I wanted a tool to access critical information while at sea—route details, speed, coordinates, wind forecasts—and to log trip data with notes. I believed an iOS app was the perfect solution, despite my lack of app development knowledge. I delved into Objective-C and developed the app during early mornings, late evenings, and weekends. Surprisingly, the app received a warm reception upon its App Store release, even gaining attention from French media.

![](/images/interviews/axel/Skipper.jpg)

Skipper is still available on the store, and I've continued to maintain it. Despite being seasonally relevant (mostly used during summer), the app boasts hundreds of active monthly users recording their boat trips.

Three years ago, I transitioned to being an indie developer and focused solely on Skipper. I envisioned it becoming the "Slopes for boaters." For almost two years, I worked on a complete revamp. However, I stumbled due to a lack of focus and a clear plan. I attempted to include numerous features, experimented with different app architectures, redesigned UIs, switched to SwiftUI, incorporated CloudKit for device synchronization, and introduced a new subscription model—all at once. The overwhelming approach prompted me to pause the project, regroup, regain confidence, and refocus by working on another project, Tizipizi. This experience taught me the significance of prioritization and gradual releases.

![](/images/interviews/axel/Tizipizi_schedule.jpg)

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

- The “Dutch mafia” as I like to call them: [Antoine van der Lee](https://twitter.com/twannl), [Jordi Bruin](https://twitter.com/jordibruin), [Hidde van der Ploeg](https://twitter.com/hiddevdploeg)
- [Arnaud Joubay (No Meat Today)](https://twitter.com/sowenjub)
- [Emmanuel Crouvisier (CardPointers)](https://twitter.com/emcro)
- [Curtis Herbert (Slopes)](https://twitter.com/parrots)
- [Ryan Ashcraft (FoodNoms)](https://twitter.com/ryanashcraft)
- [Roddy Munro (Söka)](https://twitter.com/podomunro)
- [Devin Davies (Crouton)](https://twitter.com/JustMeDevin)
- [David Smith](https://mastodon.social/@_Davidsmith)

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

Here are some tools and resources that I've found helpful, especially for indie makers who are just starting out:

Tools:

- ✨ Fastlane: Recently, I rediscovered Fastlane. When paired with ChatGPT/DeepL, the "deliver" tool within Fastlane simplifies updating and localizing App Store metadata and screenshots. This makes App Store Optimization (ASO) management more convenient. By combining it with Git, you can even analyze the impact of changes across different versions.
- ✨ Apple Frames Shortcut: Another tool I recommend is the [Apple Frames shortcut](https://www.macstories.net/stories/apple-frames-3-1-extending-screenshot-automation-with-the-new-apple-frames-api/) developed by [Frederico Viticci](https://twitter.com/viticci). It lets you effortlessly add device frames to screenshots for various Apple platforms such as iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and Mac. This tool is especially efficient for batch processing of images. I used it to include iPhone-framed app screenshots in my Press Kit.

Resources:

- [Jordan Morgan](https://twitter.com/JordanMorgan10)'s blog is a valuable resource for Apple platform development: [swiftjectivec](https://www.swiftjectivec.com). I highly recommend indie developers to read the "launching an indie app" post. Although it's four years old, the content remains highly relevant: [On Launching Your Indie App](https://www.swiftjectivec.com/on-launching-your-indie-app/).
- [Curtis Herbert](https://twitter.com/parrots) shares insights about building a business from a skiing and snowboarding app on the [Slopes blog](https://blog.getslopes.com)
- [Ryan Ashcroft](https://twitter.com/ryanashcraft) writes about what he learns building FoodNoms on his [blog](https://ryanashcraft.com)
- [Roddy Munro](https://iosdev.space/@podomunro) shares his indie developer adventure on his [blog](https://roddy.io/blog/)
- [David Smith](https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith) provides a glimpse into his development journey on his [website](https://www.david-smith.org). Check out the Design Diary section for insightful notes!

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Fastlane](https://fastlane.tools/)
- [Tizipizi](https://itunes.apple.com/app/id6449408612)
- [Skipper](https://itunes.apple.com/app/id671764434)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Maintain motivation by shipping incremental updates

Axel Le Pennec


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

Hey Khoa, thanks for having me! 

My name is Flo and I’m currently a 26 year old PhD student from Germany. I have always been fascinated with programming and wrote my very first LoC at the age of about 12, which is when I took a “website design” voluntary course in school. My teacher taught us HTML, CSS and a bit of JavaScript, which made me explore JavaScript and PHP myself later on. 

Fast forward a few years and I stumbled upon a book on UIKit and SpriteKit in 2016 - the summer before starting my bachelor’s in computer science (games engineering). I played around with it, but due to my studies I only had very limited time to work on my own apps. I came back to iOS development and first explored SwiftUI for my bachelor’s thesis, during which I built an Apple Watch app to help the elderly in everyday life. Then, during my master’s I took a course on iOS development in university and stuck with it every since! 

Eventually that led me to publish my own apps on the App Store, stacking up a resume of over 15 apps on the App Store while being a student. I have removed a bunch of them from sale since then, but others are still out there

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

Ideation happens naturally for me - I encounter a problem in real life and think about how an app could help me overcome it. I keep a long list of app ideas in LaunchBuddy, the “biggest” app I’m working on as an indie. 

LaunchBuddy is a project management tool specifically for indie developers that I started working on to manage my own growing list of apps.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

I usually start by creating a new release in LaunchBuddy. There I can set a deadline for myself and choose the tasks I want to work on. Then I usually start with the smaller tasks to get in the flow and finish the day off by working on some larger features. 

For example I recently changed how tasks are stored in LaunchBuddy (they used to have “taskboards”, but now they’re part of a release) this feature took me several weeks to implement, but I always started the day by working on something small. That’s how I find the courage to work on hard problems. 

## How do you launch and market your app?

The only app I do a lot of marketing for is LaunchBuddy - all my other apps are just for myself, so I don’t really care about their success. Since LaunchBuddy is made for indie developers I mainly market through Twitter/X. I post about development updates and new releases I shipped. It’s a natural platform to talk about these things, especially given that my audience on X are exactly the people I want to target with LaunchBuddy. It’s the perfect fit.

## What are the future plans for your app?

I don’t plan too much into the future, but I have some really fun stuff coming up for LaunchBuddy. Eventually I want to finally add widgets, but that needs another rewrite of my CoreData stack and I don’t feel ready for that yet. iPadOS & visionOS support is my next priority and I’m hoping to ship the iPad version of LaunchBuddy later this year.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Ship fast, ship often. You can always polish later on, that’s needed to understand if people actually want your product. Aside from that I learned about Apple Search Ads and that they’re a great way for me to get downloads & increase revenue. 

I also recently removed all custom styling from LaunchBuddy to go back to the default SwiftUI style. It’s cleaner and makes it so much easier to reuse my code for another platform. I highly recommend doing that!

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

Yes, two things come to mind:

- ✨ Add Subscriptions earlier. I was missing out on a ton of revenue because I only added them after a year. The previous pay-what-you-want business model wasn’t sustainable.
- ✨ Do more marketing. It’s crazy how big of a different just a few tweets / ASA budget makes. In hindsight I should have been way more consistent with my marketing, as well as explore many another channels.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

There are tons of indie makers on X that inspire me, so I just can’t name all of them. My biggest inspiration is Jordi Bruin though. He ships tons of high-quality, yet super simple apps. He’s also a really nice guy, and we frequently chat about iOS dev and other stuff going on in the Apple ecosystem. Give him a follow if you haven’t already!

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I always recommend to try out several different ways to learn: articles, documentation, videos, courses, books and just building projects. Tools aren’t as important as getting your hands dirty is. Just play around with code and sooner than later you will know your way around how to make apps.

Thanks a ton for having me! If you’re interested in what I do or want to learn more about iOS development, checkt out my [youtube channe](https://www.youtube.com/FloWritesCode) and my [social media](https://twitter.com/FloWritesCode). See you around!

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Jordi Bruin](https://twitter.com/jordibruin)
- [LaunchBuddy](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/launchbuddy-plan-app-updates/id1615169630)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Florian Schweizer


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

First and foremost, thank you for the interview. It's an honor for me to be a part of it. I've been a big fan of all your work, Khoa, for quite some time – from your open-source libraries to your apps, so it's very special for me to be a part of this interview series.
I'm an iOS developer from Spain, but I've had the opportunity to live in a few different countries. I began my journey in iOS back in the day when the iPhone 4 was released. 

From the very beginning, I've consistently had iPhone apps published on my personal account on the App Store. Unfortunately, at the start, most of the apps I had published made very little money, so I've always been working for different companies while pursuing my app development projects. It was around six years ago when I started building the Email Me App, a productivity app designed for emailing yourself your thoughts, ideas, to-dos, links, and more. My goal is to create a best-in-class productivity app.

![](/images/interviews/manuel/hero.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

You know, I'm all about keeping everything in one place. Back in the day, if I had something important I didn't want to forget, I'd just shoot myself an email. After a while, I thought – why not see if there's an app that can do this job faster? Turns out, there weren't any good ones back then. 

So, I thought to myself, "Hey, I could probably whip up this app in a couple of hours and call it a day." Fast forward all these years, and I'm still working on it! 😅

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

For my indie App projects I use a quite standard workflow using Xcode for development and Github as a repository and for tracking issues/feedback. Then I use Xcode Cloud to create the builds and publish them on the App Store. For design I'm currently using Figma. I do support once or twice a day, usually before I start and after I finish my work day.
 
## How do you launch and market your app?

When launching [Email Me]() I did at the very beginning I did a soft launch, not creating much noise. Over the years I've tried launching a few versions on Product Hunt, sometimes being more successful than others. 

I've also reached out a few times to the press but I've never had much luck with that. Marketing it's something I'm still working on and trying to get better at. Currently I focus all my marketing efforts on having a good ASO.

## What are the future plans for your app?

I have quite a large list of feature requests and improvements that I'm working on implementing to the App. Some of them focus on improving the Mac and the Watch version. Currently the Mac App is just a catalyst version of the iOS App but I'd like to improve it much more to make it feel more at home on a Mac. 

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

I'd say put your work out there and try to get customers. I think having a great product is important and to build something that the users want, you'll have to get users, ask for feedback and keep iterating on it. Then, once you have a product that users find valuable, try to monetize it and bring more customers to it.   

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

Looking back I'd say I should have tried to create more noise when launching it, and also tried to iterate the product faster. After that, something I regret Is not doing enough marketing, I feel like I'm a builder at core and I love building things either for me or for other people but I'm really bad and I don't enjoy as much telling people about them 😄.

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

Another App I'm proud of is [Digital Photo Frame](https://digitalphotoframeapp.com/) which is an App I built to play slideshow of images and videos either from your Photos Library or from other sources like Google Photos. I get emails from users sharing how they were able to repurpose an old iPad, put it in their parents house and play with the App a continuous slideshow of a shared album and how they benefit from their grandparents feeling connected to their grandkids from very far away. If anyone is interested can read more about it at [digitalphotoframeapp.com](https://digitalphotoframeapp.com/).

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

There are so many! I love the iOS community and thanks to Twitter and different conferences I've been able to meet a few of them. I'd say one of the things I love the most about doing iOS App is the community and how there are so many talented people that they've shared their work and learnings to help all of us.

##  Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I will say that there are few youtube channels that focus on App Marketing. Those have been helpful for me to learn more about that. 

Also I’d recommend to follow some accounts of people who have been in the game that have created very successful Apps or SaaS products.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Manuel Escrig


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

Back in high school, I got into coding, especially web development. Later I was building websites as side projects while getting a degree in Business & Computer Science. During this time, I discovered product management as a professional field and completed an online course. I liked how versatile and exciting the responsibilities of the role were and it seemed like the perfect training ground before doing something on my own. 
 
As a product manager, I have been doing a lot of qualitative (problem interviews, usability testing) and quantitative (a/b-testing, switch-back-testing) research, data-science projects, and even tested alternative business models and optimized unit-economy of the products I was responsible for. Some parts of the corporate culture were fun and some just weren’t for me. I wanted to invest more time in things like research and development, see the results of my work quicker, depend less on corporate processes, and still have some income.

I had a colleague who was working on a habit-building app that was making some money. It made me think it could be exactly what I wanted! After checking out the mobile app industry I decided to give it a try. I had enough savings so I quit my job to free up time and energy for learning, completed a Flutter course, and started my indie app-making journey.


## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

To put it simply, I was trying to find a balance between my personal needs and what the market needed. After I finished my Flutter course, I did some research to see what was trending using tools like Google Trends, Trend Hunter, Pinterest Predicts, and Sensor Tower. My goal was to find a great idea for my first app. I made a list of different ideas, considering things like my skills, interests, trends, and the size of the market. But none of them really clicked.

Then, I remembered a personal problem I had faced. When I was working, my partner and I were often too tired after work to do anything enjoyable besides watching TV or playing video games. Back then we solved this by planning fun activities in advance alongside our work and stuff. When I was brainstorming ideas for my first app, it occurred to me that turning this into an app might be a good idea. So, I did some more research and found a potential niche in the market for such an app. That's how I came up with the idea for [Happus](https://apps.apple.com/app/id1669465737), a guide to having a happy relationship. 

![](/images/interviews/gina/HappusBanner1.png)

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

Every morning I start my day by reviewing the data from the previous day, which includes information on crashes, subscriptions, sign-ups, and more. I write down the problems/ideas into the backlog and prioritize them. 

Then, depending on where the project is at, I either research/design/develop/create content or prepare marketing materials the whole day as I’m doing all this full-time. I try to have some kind of sprints, with each sprint resulting in an improved version of the product.
For example, I can spend 1 day researching keywords and market players, then 2 more days designing the basic flow and first UI elements, and then a couple more days creating basic models and services. So by the end of the week, I hopefully have an MVP or some kind of improvement ready.

I have a roadmap and I try my best to stick to it. So it’s easy to see what’s requiring my attention next

## How do you launch and market your app?

Not the best way possible yet, that’s for sure! There was no launch strategy for Happus because I didn’t know anything about it, I just put it out there to see if anyone would pay for a mobile app with date ideas. I mainly relied on ASO.

As I learned more about app marketing along the way, I tried platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Quora, but I didn't get great results. So, for Happus, I'm sticking with ASO for now, thinking about writing blog posts and reaching out to the press. I'm also hoping to try some paid marketing soon.

## What are the future plans for your app?

I want to conduct some qualitative research (problem interviews and usability testing), and then, based on its findings and existing data insights, I’ll try to simplify the user flow. In addition, I’m working on adding some in-app couple-oriented games to make the user experience more enjoyable and increase user retention. Marketing-wise, I will focus on finding some good organic channels and try paid marketing. 

![Happus Banner 2](/images/interviews/gina/HappusBanner2.png)

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

I’m pretty much still figuring it all out myself! But here are a few things I’d say to myself if I could travel back in time:

- • Better make your first app super simple and launch it as quickly as possible to understand the full cycle from discovery to deliver

- • You need some kind of reliable marketing channel and some launch strategy because your ASO will probably suck the first time and you won’t get enough data for making decisions for a while
Some marketing services are not supported in some countries, so be prepared to improvise 

- • Test your builds on older OS versions too and remember about cases with no internet connection

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I definitely should’ve started following the indie makers' community on Twitter earlier and added free trials to Happus from the beginning 

##  Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

Yes! Absolutely! I recently launched my second app called [Timus](https://apps.apple.com/app/id6461119151). It’s a visual multi-timer that can be used for different purposes. I believe both the development and marketing were a bigger success this time.

![Timus Banner 1](/images/interviews/gina/TimusBanner1.png)

This time I knew a lot more about different ASO tools, so I relied mostly on them. For a couple of days, I searched for some keyword opportunities and even formed long and short lists of ideas again. But nothing «clicked» again. That same day my friend told me they couldn’t run multiple timers on the iPhone Clock app and they needed this option for some personal reasons. So I looked into that timer topic too, checked the popularity and competition for related keywords, and decided it was worth a shot. 

![Timus Banner 2](/images/interviews/gina/TimusBanner2.png)

Now, when it comes to marketing and enhancing the launch process, I still invested a lot of time in ASO beforehand, but this time I also shared some sneak peeks on Twitter for a couple of days before the launch. Both a better ASO approach and announcing the release of the app on Twitter helped Timus get 7 times more downloads on a launch day compared to Happus’ average downloads values.

##  Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

Sure! Some of them were already mentioned in these interview series, but I can’t help it, they are truly cool makers to follow.

[Matteo Spada](https://twitter.com/atteo_spada) is extremely helpful and has great experience in ASO.

[Kris Slazinski](https://twitter.com/KSlazinski) has outstanding UX and localization expertise.

[Sebastian Röhl](https://twitter.com/SebastianRoehl) is really killing it at sharing the development journey and marketing on Twitter. Moreover, I get really inspired by some of his visuals, hope he doesn’t mind.

[Maksym](https://twitter.com/skreepao), [Manuel Kehl](https://twitter.com/manuel_kehl), and [Nick](https://twitter.com/Nick_Frankl) are inspiring me to try different tools and channels and be active on Twitter.

And there are some ultimate role models for me like [Adam Lyttle](https://twitter.com/adamlyttleapps) and [Marc Lou](marc_louvion). They make products for a living and prove that my goals can be achieved too.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

[Flutter course by Maximilian Schwarzmüller](https://pro.academind.com/p/flutter-the-complete-guide-2023) is super helpful for starting a mobile app development journey 

Appfigures is the best ASO tool among those that I tried (SensorTower, AppFolow), especially because of [Ariel](arielmichaeli) ’s articles and guides 

AppMasters podcast by Steve P Young has a lot of food for thought on app marketing topics

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Happus](https://apps.apple.com/app/id1669465737)
- [Timus](https://apps.apple.com/app/id6461119151)
- [Google Trends](https://trends.google.com/trends/)
- [Trend Hunter](https://www.trendhunter.com/)
- [Pinterest Predicts](https://business.pinterest.com/ru/pinterest-predicts/)
- [Sensor Tower](https://app.sensortower.com/)
- [Appfigures](https://appfigures.com/resources/guides)
- [AppMasters](https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/app-marketing-podcast)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Better make your first app super simple and launch it as quickly as possible

Regina Dan

Focus on building relationships with specific potential customers

Cihat Gündüz


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

I’m Trent, 27, living in Austin, TX with my wife and our two cats.

I started my journey indie hacking back in high school. My first project was a janky Flappy Bird clone called Space Bird. At the time, I didn’t really know how to code, but I found an open source Flappy Bird clone on Github. After modifying all of the physics variables, designing my own assets, and learning how to implement levels, I released it on the App Store.

That project didn't last long, but it did give me a taste for how fun indie iOS development could be. 

![](/images/interviews/trent/spacebird.jpeg)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

The only app I have right now that is publicly available is Twig - a journaling app for couples - and I'm pretty sure I broke all the rules of product development while building it.

The idea came from my own needs at the time. My wife and I were still just dating, and living 6 hours apart (long distance wasn't fun). Her birthday was coming up and I wanted to make a scrapbook of our fun memories together. But making a scrapbook turned out to be really messy - even if I made a great one, continuing to add to it would be a pain.

So I decided a couple’s journaling app would be better. Over the course of two weeks, the first version of Twig was born, and we started using it.

It took me a lot longer to get Twig on the App Store, though. I kept going back and forth about how other couples would want to use it, and I could never decide on a monetization strategy. At one point I told a friend “I'm not sure I even want to release this thing.” Their response is the only reason Twig exists today: 

“Just launch it for free, exactly how it is right now.”

I'm glad I listened to that friend - without conducting any user interviews or market testing, the first public version of the app was good enough to garner a few hundred regular users.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

For my entire indie journey, I've been a moonlighter - I work a full-time job during the day and squeeze in a little bit of development time at night. This only works thanks to how low maintenance Twig is. It's also one of the main reasons I don't have a large library of apps. Just supporting and maintaining one app takes up a lot of my time. 

All said, I'm a pretty bad example of day-to-day development routines. I've gone long spans of time not working on any project, or letting Twig go a while without an update while I explore other project ideas. At one point, I told myself Twig was dead since it had been over a year since I touched it. But now I've got several updates lined up and there's more couples using it today than ever before. 

## How do you launch and market your app?

Marketing Twig hasn't been easy. My most expensive marketing efforts were also my least effective - I wasted a lot of money on Facebook Ads and TikTok influencers. 

There are two things that have proved effective, though. First, Twig is now listed on a few different dating blogs as a must-have couples app. This drives a very small amount of high quality traffic to its App Store listing. Second, I've been prompting power users of Twig to leave ratings and reviews in the app for a couple years now. It's taken some time, but it's now approaching 500 App Store reviews with an average rating of 4.7 stars. This is huge for visibility in the App Store. Organic App Store discovery is the greatest driver of Twig downloads. 

## What are the future plans for your app?

Right now, the core feature-set and overall design of Twig is pretty aged. I launched the app in 2019, and while it has gained a good number of features in that time, it looks somewhat outdated. So I want to slowly introduce these new design elements to bring Twig up to 2023 standards. 

Beyond that, I don't really have a grand vision. I just want Twig to continue being a fun place for couples to share their moments together.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Yes, definitely. Here's a quick list:

- ✨ Just launch whatever you have. Like I explained above, Twig almost didn't exist today because I was overthinking the launch. After launching and hearing back from users, I realized that it was worth it to keep chipping away at it. 

- ✨ You can always come back to a project. If you launched one thing and want to work on another, that's fine. Let one project go stale while you dealt with other stuff? You can always come back around to it. Nothing is lost.

- ✨ Your projects aren't your identity. App Store reviews are harsh. Bugs can cause bad experiences. When things go poorly, don't beat yourself up. It happens. We're always going to have higher standards than we're capable of accomplishing. 

- ✨ Do the simplest thing next. In the past, I've discouraged myself by trying to change too much at once, or launch one major v2 when a small increment would have been just as good. Biting off more than you can chew is a losing game. Keep it simple.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I have one major regret - spending $1500 on a TikTok influencer post. I sort of got scammed here. Even though the post did get 60k views within a few hours, it drove basically no downloads. Long story!

So when it comes to marketing, I'd focus on spending smaller amounts of money on a variety of channels. Especially channels that will stand the test of time, like blogs and websites.

Apart from this one marketing regret, a general trend for myself has been doing everything slower than it could have been done. You can see this in my story above - launching slowly, overthinking each release, etc. 

Were I to restart Twig today, I think I could get to where I am now in half the time, with less money and a lot less worry.

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

Absolutely. I have one pre-release project that is stretching me in many ways. It’s a stock analysis app designed to put noteworthy stocks front and center for casual investors to consider. There’s a lot of math and backend work involved - plus licensing with NASDAQ.

Just like Twig, I came up with this idea by first making a version just for myself and my own investment purposes. I'm getting a lot of value from using it, so I hope the same will be true for others once it's released.

Here’s a [thread](https://www.threads.net/@trent.guillory/post/Cu61paRAxOr/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) that shows off an early version of the app.

If you’re interesting in testing this on TestFlight as soon as it’s ready, feel free to email me: 📨 trent@hey.com. I’d be happy to hear from you!

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

Definitely - there’s a handful of indie developers that I learned a lot from on Twitter.

- [Rudrank](https://twitter.com/rudrankriyam): Great writer and developer who covers all sorts of iOS topics. 
- [Spencer](https://twitter.com/jones_spencera): He built and sold a Twitter scheduling web app. We briefly collaborated on an iOS client for the project. Really driven and motivated creator. 
- [Jordan Morgan](https://twitter.com/jordanmorgan10): He’s got a big presence on Twitter and for good reason - super high quality iOS tips. He embodies the high quality software experience Apple intends for all users to have. 

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Rudrank](https://twitter.com/rudrankriyam)
- [Spencer](https://twitter.com/jones_spencera)
- [Jordan Morgan](https://twitter.com/jordanmorgan10)
- [Twig](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/twig-journal-for-couples/id1453545808)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Trent Guillory


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

It's a very long story because it all started 6 years ago, but I'll try to keep it short! 😅

I'm a software engineer from Brazil 🇧🇷, but I currently live in Ireland 🇮🇪. I've always liked to build side projects on my spare time to learn new things. My first serious side one was an open source feedback collection platform called [Fider](https://fider.io). I built it because I wanted to learn Go and React, which were trending at that time.

During the early days no one was actually using it because it had to be self-hosted. I decided to offer free hosting because at that time I would only cost me $5/mo, regardless of how many users I had on it. I didn't expect people to sign up, but they did. I started getting a few users every day and it kept growing. I was very happy with it, but I never thought about monetizing it.

In 2021, 5 years later, I learned about the indie hacking movement and how people were making money online competing with the giants. I had this site with a few thousands users and growing monthly, so I decided to give indie hacking a try to see if anyone was willing to pay for it. I started by adding a paid plan to Fider. I was blown away by the response. It was the first time I made money online and it felt amazing. I was hooked!

Fider was the spark that ignited the indie hacking fire in me. In 2022, I launched [Aptakube](https://aptakube.com), a Desktop Client for Kubernetes. The launch was a success and the community reception was amazing. After only 6 months working on it, I decided to quit my job and work on it full time 🚀

I recently found a gap on the market and decided to build my third product. [Aptabase](https://aptabase.com) is an analytics platform for mobile and desktop apps, with a big focus on privacy. I'm still very early days, but it's already generating revenue and growing nicely.

As I currently spend most of my time on Aptakube and Aptabase, I'll focus on them for the rest of the interview 😊

![](/images/interviews/guilherme/aptakube.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

I was working with Kubernetes on my day job and I wasn't happy with the alternatives. They didn't have some features I wish they had, so I decided to build my own app. I started by building a prototype and sharing it with the community. The feedback was amazing and when I put a price on it, people were happy to pay for it.

While working on Aptakube I realised I didn't have any insights on how people were using it, what features they were using the most, the operating system, etc. I'm a big fan of Plausible for website analytics, but I couldn't find anything similar for desktop apps, which led me to build Aptabase.

One of the best lessons I learned from this experience is that an idea doesn't have to be original. You can build something that already exists, but just take one feature of it and make it better. The more I work on these two products, the more ideas I have for new products, it's a never ending cycle 😅

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

Because I work full time on these products, I have the luxury of working on them during the day, instead of side hustling as I was doing before. It took me some time to find a routine that works for me, but I think I finally found it.

I alternate between the two products quite frequently. I spend 2 weeks working on Aptakube and the other 2 on Aptabase. I try to keep a balance between new features, bug fixes, customer support and marketing. I still suck at marketing, but I'm working on it!

## How do you launch and market your app?

I launched Aptakube on Reddit and the reception was fantastic. There were loads of negative comments, but haters gonna hate, right? 😅 On the other hand a lot of people were interested in the product and I got a lot of constructive feedback. However you have to be careful with Reddit or else you get banned, being part of the community is important, so don't just go there to promote your product.

I also tried Product Hunt, but it didn't work for me. I think it's because Aptakube is a very niche product and it's hard to get traction on PH for certain niches. My marketing strategy is mostly SEO, content marketing and word of mouth. I get a support requests from potential users and I try to convert them into paying customers by going the extra mile during the trial period. It has worked quite well so far.

As for Aptabase, I haven't marketed it that much yet. I haven't even officially launched it 🤣 I still have a few things I want to do before launching it on Hacker News and Product Hunt. However I tweet quite a bit about it, so most of my users come from Twitter and organic search. I'm happy with the growth so far, but I'm still trying to figure out the best marketing strategy for it.

![](/images/interviews/guilherme/aptabase.png)

## What are the future plans for your app?

I have a lot of plans for both products. Aptakube's roadmap is driven by user requests. I have a public roadmap where users can vote on features they want to see implemented. I also have a few ideas of my own, but I try to prioritise user requests first to make them happy. Saying "No" to users is hard, but it's something I had to learn to do. I don't implement every feature request, but I try to implement the ones that I feel like will benefit a large number of users.

Aptabase is a bit different. Most analytics products start simple and grow into a complex and feature bloated product. I want to avoid that. It's one of the reasons "Simple" is part of the tagline. Aptabase is and will remain simple. There's still a few key features I want to implement, but I'm taking it slowly to make sure I don't over complicate it.

I also have plans for a new product later this year 😊 I can't say much about it yet, but it'll be small and hyper focused on doing a single thing really well.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

- ✨ The more products you build, the more you learn. Don't be afraid to fail, it's part of the process. You also get to find quite a few challenges along the way which leads to new ideas.

- ✨ Be consistent and keep shipping, always. Building a product is like long-term investment. If you put $100 dollars and walk away, it'll never grow. If you build a product and expect users to find it and pay you, I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way. You have to keep investing on it constantly to make it grow.

- ✨ Don't be afraid to charge a premium for your product. I've lost count how many times I've heard that $99 is to expensive for my product, but there are people still buying it every day. If you've got a good product that solves a problem, people will pay for it. Don't be afraid to charge what you think it's worth. You can always tweak the price later.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I should have started monetising earlier, much earlier. That was a big mistake I made with Fider, which I fixed on all the subsquent products I built. I wish I could go back 6 years and had subscriptions ready to go from day 1, but it is what it is. We learn from our mistakes and move on.

The other mistake was leaving my 9-5 job too early. At that time, sales were trending up and I thought that spending more time on it would make sales go up faster, but it didn't. While employed my products were a side-project that made some decent money. But as soon as I quit my job, they became my main source of income and I had to worked longer hours and still earn significantly less. It was a very stressful time, especially at the beginning. I'm glad I have a supportive wife who helped me through it.

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

Too many to mention them all, but to highlight a few:

- I'm a big fan of [Proxyman](https://proxyman.io/) and love reading Noah's stories on Twitter
- I use [Plausible](https://plausible.io/) on all my websites and was the inspiration for Aptabase
- [LogSnag](https://logsnag.com/) is really well thought out and I love the minimalist design
- The design of [Screen Studio](https://www.screen.studio/) and the story behind it is also very inspiring

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

There's so many, but here's a few:

- [SebastianRoehl from HabitKit](https://twitter.com/SebastianRoehl)
- [Adam from Screen Studio](https://twitter.com/pie6k)
- [Noah from Proxyman](https://twitter.com/_nghiatran)
- [Andras from Coolify](https://twitter.com/heyandras)
- [Tony from Xnapper](https://twitter.com/tdinh_me)
- [Peter Levels, the OG indie?](https://twitter.com/levelsio)

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

Because my products are not on a marketplace like App Store or Google Play, I had to find a different way to get them in front of potential users.

I'm heavily invested in SEO and content marketing, but I travel light when it comes to tools. I use Reddit for content ideas and Google Search Console to track performance and some keyword research. I've read a lot about SEO over the years and I would recommend other indies to learn the basics of it. It's a long term investment, don't expect immediate results, but it pays off in the long run. After 1 year of working constantly on Aptakube, I usually get 500 daily visits from Google searches alone.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Aptabase](https://twitter.com/aptabase)
- [Sebastian Röhl](https://twitter.com/SebastianRoehl)
- [Adam Pietrasiak](https://twitter.com/pie6k)
- [Noah Tran](https://twitter.com/_nghiatran)
- [Andras Bacsai](https://twitter.com/heyandras)
- [Tony Dinh](https://twitter.com/tdinh_me)
- [WishKit](https://twitter.com/levelsio)
- [Pieter Levels](https://twitter.com/khuong291)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

The more products you build, the more you learn

Guilherme Oenning


## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

My name is Matteo, I'm 32 years old, and I live in Rome, Italy. My journey as a developer started recently when I began programming at the age of 27. However, I've always had a passion for computer science. After completing school, I started working as an IT technician for a consulting company and later worked as a system administrator in different companies.

I have always enjoyed my work, and I still do (I currently have a full-time job). However, since I was young, I've always wanted to create something of my own and start my own business.

To start a business, I realized I needed something to sell, so I decided to learn programming. Programming came naturally to me, and I dedicated all my free time to studying it. I learned JavaScript, Python, Dart, and eventually delved into native app development for Apple platforms. It took some time to find my path, but once I understood everything, it started taking shape.

I developed one application after another, and while doing so, I started an Italian podcast called "Sviluppare un'App" (Developing an App), where week after week, I share everything I learn, the things that go well, and those that don't go so well. It's like an audio diary.

In April 2022, while looking for ways to promote my apps, I became passionate about App Store Optimization (ASO). I extensively studied this topic and even wrote two books about it called [Introduction to App Store Optimization](https://matteospada.gumroad.com/l/dzgmq) and [The Perfect Keyword](https://matteospada.gumroad.com/l/fwbsc)

On the market, there were excellent products, but nothing specifically tailored for independent developers. So, I decided to create it myself, and that's how Astro was born.

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

For Astro, it was straightforward because I myself needed this tool.

For other ideas, I always try to start with a real problem. Then, I conduct ASO research to understand if there is actually a demand for what I want to create. After that, I try to identify a subscription price that is as high as possible. If I realize that people wouldn't pay a high price, I move on to the next idea. Otherwise, I start developing it.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

During the week, I work from 9 to 18. As I mentioned earlier, I have a full-time job. After 18, I turn off my work computer and switch to my Mac to continue working on my projects.

The weekend, on the other hand, is almost always dedicated to my projects. During those two days, I try to condense everything that I couldn't accomplish during the week.

Marketing and development are the activities that consume the most time for me. To manage everything, I set micro-goals that I can achieve in an afternoon or a couple of hours.

## How do you launch and market your app?

Astro's marketing is divided into three fundamental parts:

- ✨ Communication on Twitter: I extensively use this platform to make myself known to new customers. Typically, people are cautious about new products because they fear investing their money in the wrong way. What I try to do is simply show people that behind Astro, there is a developer like them who is working on a project. Over time, people get to know me, understand what I do, and become Astro customers.

- ✨ Free books on ASO: To promote Astro, I have also written the two books I mentioned earlier, which users can download for free. In these books, I explain many things about ASO and guide users step by step on how to optimize their applications.

- ✨ Cross-promotion with Explorer app: I utilize cross-promotion through an app called [Explorer](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1667886076), which is also a portable app store optimization tool. Within the app, I display a promotional banner for Astro, leveraging the organic traffic of the app store.

![](/images/interviews/matteo/explorer.png)

## What are the future plans for your app?

My goal is to transform Astro into the best ASO tool on the market for Apple developers. I am focusing heavily on user experience by listening to all the feedback I receive from the many users who use Astro every day. For me, UX is everything. I'm not interested in adding hundreds of features to the product. Astro is a tool that allows you to find the best keywords for your app, and its essence should remain the same. What will change in the future is that it will do it even better, simplifying the lives of users.

An example of what I mean is the new translation feature that allows you to translate a keyword into English simply by hovering over it with the mouse.

![](/images/interviews/matteo/astro_keyword.png)

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

I am learning new things every single day, but perhaps the most important thing I have understood during this first year as an independent developer is that technical skills are only a small part of the necessary skills.

Since I joined Twitter, I have had the opportunity to talk to many incredibly skilled developers who were struggling to monetize their apps, as well as many developers who were not as technically skilled but were earning a lot.

What I have come to understand is that creating a successful app has much less to do with technical prowess and much more to do with entrepreneurial skills. When I reached this conclusion, it was a great relief for me because, not having a background as a developer, I always thought it could be a disadvantage.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

Despite Astro being only 7 months old, I am happy with how things are going, and most of all, I am glad that people appreciate my work and find it genuinely helpful.

However, one thing I would have done differently and am currently implementing is incorporating more analytics events within the app. This is crucial to understand how users are using your product and to avoid operating blindly.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

A special mention definitely goes to my friend [@KSlazinski](https://twitter.com/KSlazinski), someone I met thanks to Twitter at the beginning of my journey as an indie maker, and who has helped me tremendously during the development of Astro.

I also cannot fail to mention the list of Italian developers who have been interviewed by me on my podcast. Each of them has taught me something, and I am extremely grateful to them
[@SwiftForFarming](https://twitter.com/SwiftForFarming), [@CapanoEnrico](https://twitter.com/CapanoEnrico), [@dimix](https://twitter.com/dimix), [@SimoneMontalto](https://twitter.com/SimoneMontalto), [@alxgi](https://twitter.com/alxgi), [@Salv089](https://twitter.com/Salv089), [@nic_fontana](https://twitter.com/nic_fontana).

Additionally, I want to mention [@Aivars_Meijers](https://twitter.com/Aivars_Meijers), a person I greatly admire.

Months ago, while I was looking for a way to promote Astro, he was the first person to believe in the project and talk about it with his YouTube subscribers without asking for anything in return. 

His was the first "yes" after many "no's," and I appreciated it greatly.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I believe that my two free books, "Introduction to App Store Optimization" and "The Perfect Keyword" are a good starting point for those who want to learn more about ASO.

Furthermore, for the analytics part, I recommend using TelemetryDeck, an analytics tool that respects user privacy. I have also written an article about it on Astro's blog.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Kris Slazinski](https://twitter.com/KSlazinski)
- [Alberto](https://twitter.com/SwiftForFarming)
- [Enrico Capano](https://twitter.com/CapanoEnrico)
- [Dimitri Giani](https://twitter.com/dimix)
- [Simone Montalto](https://twitter.com/SimoneMontalto)
- [AlexGì](https://twitter.com/alxgi)
- [Salvatore De Angelis](https://twitter.com/Salv089)
- [Niccolò Fontana](https://twitter.com/nic_fontana)
- [Aivars Meijers](https://twitter.com/Aivars_Meijers)
- [Astro](https://tryastro.app/)
- [TelemetryDeck](https://telemetrydeck.com/)
- [All the app metrics to keep an eye on to understand if your app is healthy](https://tryastro.app/posts/all-the-app-metrics-to-keep-an-eye-on-to-maintain-your-app-healthy/)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Creating a successful app has more to do with entrepreneurial skills

Matteo Spada


Welcome to another episode of Indie Interview. Today I'm happy to introduce you Minh, a young developer with lots of potential. He makes WallCal, a very interesting calendar on desktop Mac app.

## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

Certainly! I'm originally born and raised in Hanoi, Vietnam but I moved to Japan after graduating from university to pursue my love for anime and all things weebish! 😂 Now, I'm happily settled in Japan with my family, and we're all enjoying our cozy home that we bought together.

![sorry if I look too dork 🥹](/images/interviews/minh/avatar.jpeg)

Regarding my journey as an indie maker, it all started when I was using a desktop background calendar called Blotter. Unfortunately, it stopped working after macOS Big Sur came out. I was totally bummed when I couldn't find any good alternatives. But instead of giving up, I decided to take matters into my own hands and create my own app to solve this problem. And you know what? Thanks to some inspiring indie maker role models I found on Twitter, I decided to share my app with the world. Since then it has been received very good reception from users worldwide! It turns out, I'm not the only one who loves having my schedule right on my computer desktop 😂

![this little boi has earned me $10,000 on the internet, something I hadn't ever believed in when I first started it!](/images/interviews/minh/wallcal.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

Since I have a full-time job and don't have much time for other apps besides WallCal, I prioritize choosing to work on something that genuinely excites me, just like when I'm eager to play games.

One of the ways I come up with ideas is by identifying repetitive tasks or obligations that I dislike doing. I ask myself if there's a way to make those tasks less painful or more enjoyable, even if it's just a partial improvement. By focusing on addressing such needs or problems that I personally experience, I can create apps or projects that make a difference in my own life and hopefully in the lives of others too.

Another way is that I choose to work on something I always want to do regardless of external demands (like working on my own blog 😅). I treat this the same as playing video games, and at least I get something useful out of doing that, like knowledge about tinkering around certain techs. Who knows what gold mine I could hit with this in the future if I kept going, like whoever would think that some game as dumb as Flappy Bird could become a world hit after one night 😬

I must say, having a seemingly stable 9-5 job with low demands has been a blessing for me. It has allowed me to pursue my indie endeavors without stress, and for that, I'm truly grateful. One crucial factor that keeps me motivated and prevents burnout is being oblivious to the outcome or results. I believe it's essential for indie makers to have a solid foundation before diving into their projects. It's challenging to be successful when faced with a stressful environment and the pressure to make ends meet. Therefore, I highly recommend establishing a stable and supportive foundation before embarking on the indie journey.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

In my day-to-day app development workflow, I prioritize my tasks based on the limited time I have available. Here's how it typically looks:

- • Critical bugfixes come first. These are any issues that have a significant impact on the app's functionality and need immediate attention.
- • Next, I tackle bugfixes that are relatively quick and don't require too much time and concentration. These are the smaller issues that can be addressed without disrupting the overall development process.
- • Then, I focus on implementing features that I personally need. These are functionalities that enhance my own experience with the app and align with my requirements.
- • Additionally, I work on features that I'm excited about and genuinely want to explore. These are the aspects of the app that spark my interest and drive my motivation to further develop and improve it.
- • I also take into account features or functionalities that other users need, as long as they are not too time-consuming to implement. If it benefits both the users and aligns with my own interests, I prioritize incorporating these features.

By following this workflow, I ensure a balanced approach to app development that caters to critical fixes, personal requirements, user needs, and my own interests.

## How do you launch and market your app?

At the time WallCal was released, I kept it simple and low-key. I typically announced it by tweeting about it on Twitter, doing some shameless plugs on relevant subreddits, and creating a landing page dedicated to the app. I have to admit, the effort I put into the launch was minimal.

As for marketing, I have to be honest - it's practically non-existent. I haven't actively pursued marketing strategies or campaigns to promote the app. However, I believe that word-of-mouth and organic growth can still play a significant role in reaching potential users and gaining traction.

While my approach may seem minimalistic, I focus more on creating a valuable and high-quality app that speaks for itself, rather than investing heavily in marketing efforts.

## What are the future plans for your app?

I'm thrilled to share my future plans for the app! While I want to be realistic and not make any extravagant promises, I have a vision of introducing multiple calendar screens with customizable options to seamlessly blend in with different desktop setups. It's all about creating a visually stunning and user-friendly experience. And guess what? I also plan to implement the ability to manipulate calendars right on the desktop itself. It's going to be a gradual process, considering my limited time, but rest assured, I'm committed to making steady progress.

But that's not all! I'm also planning to dive into blogging more. I have a deep passion for writing about coding, life, and the indie journey, sharing personal experiences and insights. Even though finding dedicated time for it can be a challenge, my passion for writing never ceases. So, stay tuned for some exciting blog posts coming your way!

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

If you don't have any paying products, it's important to find a stable, low-stress 9-5 job first. A strong foundation is crucial. I have never seen a successful indie maker thrive while struggling to make ends meet.

Next, allocate half an hour each day to explore ideas and develop a prototype. If you find it engaging, gradually increase the time. Begin by focusing on things you genuinely enjoy to keep your motivation alive.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I should have quit playing games and launched the app sooner 😂

##  Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

You were literally the first indie maker I came across by chance on Google, and literally the reason I started following the indie community on Twitter and made something myself. Thanks a Khoa! 🙏
The other creator that significantly affected my mental model is [@dvassalo](https://twitter.com/dvassallo). His tweets literally taught me how to make my life better. Awesome dude!

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

I highly recommend Next.js as a framework choice. It's a fantastic web development tool that I personally love and have found to be incredibly helpful.

Next.js offers a smooth learning curve, making it accessible for indie makers with varying levels of experience. It also provides low friction when it comes to choosing development methods and integrating with other tools. This versatility and ease of use make it a perfect choice for quickly building and launching web applications.

I've personally embraced Next.js and have never looked back. It has greatly simplified my development process and allowed me to focus more on creating great experiences.

If you're an indie maker looking for a powerful yet user-friendly web development tool, I highly recommend giving Next.js a try.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Minh Hoang Nguyen](https://twitter.com/minhnh94)
- [WallCal](https://twitter.com/WallCalApp)
- [Daniel Vassallo](https://twitter.com/dvassallo)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Minh Hoang Nguyen


Today I'm happy to introduce you Clemens Scholz, a talented product designer and developer. Together with his friend Florian Schulte, they found Vogelhaus Apps where they build Peaks and Macaw. Peaks is very interesting app that offers valuable insights into your body's circadian rhythm, a scientifically supported daily cycle that exerts a significant impact on your sleep, energy levels, and overall productivity.

> Get a prototype out there as soon as you can and gather feedback

## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker?

Both of us, Clemens and Florian, have backgrounds as Product Designers in large corporations, where we built apps used by millions. We learned how to design apps, and when SwiftUI was released, we wanted to learn how to build them. This led us to start our first project, Macaw.

Macaw started as a personal project, serving as our hands-on coding tutorial. Our ideas are born out of a need we both experienced. During the pandemic, we were looking for a simple solution to track expenses, especially take-out food. Macaw was that: a simple way to track expenses, which over time evolved into a functional application that people around the world now find valuable.

Working on Macaw got us hooked. We loved it so much that we decided to go full-time indie with our latest, much more ambitious project, Peaks.

![](/images/interviews/clemens/Macaw_Mockups.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

We share a notes file where we constantly jot down all sorts of ideas. When a particular idea piques our interest, we discuss it with each other and with friends.

The idea for our latest app, Peaks, originated from this note-taking process and personal curiosity. We had observed that we consistently felt tired at the same time every day. Intrigued, we conducted research online and soon discovered the science of the circadian rhythm — this is your body's internal clock, which dictates when you feel tired or energized.

We started exploring whether we could use data from Apple Health to decode someone's individual rhythm. We built numerous prototypes, combining Apple Health data in various ways, until we were confident we had something viable.

![Image: Prototypes Peaks - Our first prototypes for the app were very basic and aimed to just be a proof of concept.](/images/interviews/clemens/Prototypes_Peaks.png)

When we discussed the concept with friends and family, we quickly got a lot of ideas about how we could build features around that rhythm. People were curious and found the insight the app provided valuable. Their responses affirmed our decision to develop the idea further, and we started iterating on the app.

![Image: Design Iterations - In our iterations we especially focused on the overall information architecture and navigation of the app](/images/interviews/clemens/Design_Iterations.png)

In general, we enjoy engaging in conversations as they help us identify areas for improvement. This can be overwhelming, as there are many ideas, so we keep track of these as a list in our notes. When deciding what we want to build next, we focus on what brings the most value to people.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?
Since it's just the two of us, our app development workflow is fast and dynamic. We focus on building and testing quickly. Once an app progresses beyond the initial prototyping phase, we aim to work in two-week cycles. We track our releases in Linear, a tool we absolutely love. Even though we operate at a fast pace, we find it crucial to stay organised in our planning.

Given that we're both designers and developers, ideas can transition smoothly from design into code without the need for extensive handoffs.

In terms of communication, we hold daily standup meetings each morning and schedule planning sessions in sync with our two-week cycles. Once a week, we hold "office days", which are our in-person meet-ups. We use these days to film content for our social media channels and tackle larger topics.

Since developing an app and building a business demand a lot of time and dedication, we also try to prioritise our friendship. We make a conscious effort to engage in non-business activities whenever we can – one of our favourites is going for walks.

## How do you launch and market your app?

With Peaks, we initiated a soft launch to ensure that everything runs smoothly. Whenever we launch a new feature or app, we notify Apple, in hopes of catching their attention for possible features in the App Store.

Since our budget doesn't allow for any paid advertising, we rely on organic digital marketing. We aim to regularly post videos about our current work on Instagram, TikTok and LinkedIn, hoping to gradually connect with a like-minded audience. We've found that videos are more effective, as they offer a straightforward way to demonstrate what our app does.

We've also published a few blog posts on our website and plan to create more in the future. These posts aim to provide more in-depth information about certain features and topics related to our apps. Not only does this help improve our website's SEO, but it also offers a peek behind the curtain.

![Image: Social Media](/images/interviews/clemens/Social_Media.png)

## What are the future plans for your app?

Thanks to people's feedback, we have plenty of ideas for the future of Peaks. Currently, we are investing our efforts into building the first widgets for the app. With these, we aim to provide our users with instant, glanceable, and relevant information about their rhythm.

Over the next few months, we're developing Peaks Plus, a premium version of Peaks with additional features. This project is particularly exciting for us, as we're looking forward to offering our users even more ways to interact with and benefit from Peaks.

Looking further ahead, one of our goals is to create a version of our app for WatchOS 10. We believe this platform is perfect as the watch is able to track all the data we need to calculate people's energy forecast effortlessly. We are also looking to add exciting new features for iOS 17 and iPadOS later this year.

![Image: Peaks Widgets](/images/interviews/clemens/Peaks_Widgets.png)

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

One of the most crucial lessons we've learned is the importance of testing early. It's easy to fall in love with your idea and start perfecting it before it's been validated. The truth is, no matter how great an idea seems in your head, it may not work in reality. So, get a prototype out there as soon as you can and gather feedback.

Failure is part of the process. We learned this with a project we called Dodo, an app that would grant you screen time as you complete habits. While testing the idea, we learned that it is not feasible.

Whenever you launch a new app or a significant update, let Apple know about it. They're always on the lookout for new apps to feature in the App Store, and getting featured can be a massive boost to your visibility.

Lastly, don’t be shy about talking about your app. Discuss it with your peers, post about it on social media, write blog posts, participate in forums - the more people hear about your app, the better.

![Image: LinkedIn - We use Social Media to find testers for our apps](/images/interviews/clemens/LinkeIn.png)

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

Looking back, there are a few things we might have done differently. One of our main reflections is that we wish we had quit our jobs sooner to focus on our indie projects. Balancing full-time work with app development on the side significantly lengthened the time it took to get our projects off the ground.

With Macaw, we learned that testing early and often is crucial. If we were to start over, we would definitely put more emphasis on validating our ideas with users at every stage of the project. This approach would have not only saved time but also ensured that we're always on the right track.

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them?

We'd love to mention Macaw, our budgeting app. We're particularly proud of this project as it was our first step into the indie development world.

Macaw was born out of our personal need for a simple, yet effective way to manage our finances. We wanted an app that gives us an overview of our expenses at a glance, provides insights into our spending habits, and holds us accountable. This is exactly what Macaw does.

![Image: Macaw Feature Map & Peaks Feature Map](/images/interviews/clemens/Peaks_Feature_Map.png)

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

We love to follow other indie makers like David Smith, Klemens Stracher, Curtis Herbert and David Jöch. We take great inspiration from them and the community.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out? 

When it comes to learning coding, we can't recommend Design & Code enough. Their 'Learn Swift' course was particularly helpful in getting us off the ground with Swift.

Another resource that we found extremely beneficial is “100 Days of Swift" from Hacking with Swift. This course offers a comprehensive, structured approach to learning Swift and is perfectly tailored for beginners.

Finally, we cannot stress the importance of Apple's WWDC videos enough. These are a gold mine of information about development and design straight from the Apple teams themselves. Watching these presentations not only helps us to stay up-to-date, but also provides valuable insights into how Apple envisions their platforms and technologies being used.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Vogelhaus](https://www.vogel.haus/)
- [Clemens Scholz ](https://www.linkedin.com/in/clemens-scholz-b961351a6/)
- [Florian Schulte](https://www.linkedin.com/in/folrianschlute/)
- [David Jöch](https://twitter.com/davidjoech)
- [Curtis Herbert](https://twitter.com/parrots)
- [David Smith](https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith)
- [Design Code](https://designcode.io/)
- [100 Days of Swift](https://www.hackingwithswift.com/100)
- [WWDC Videos](https://developer.apple.com/videos/)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Get a prototype out there as soon as you can and gather feedback

Clemens Scholz


Today we're happy to introduce you Sebastian, a verty talented developer from Germany. You may already know him from his popular app [HabitKit](https://www.habitkit.app/) and [Liftbear](https://www.liftbear.app/). Sebastian is very active building in public, and shares regularly about his learning about his experience building apps and marketing.

> Understand the diverse roles you juggle as an indie developer, from marketing and planning to design and social media

## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

I'm Sebastian, a 30-year-old from Germany. After earning my computer science degree from university, I worked as a Software Engineer for three years. However, ever since I stumbled upon the Indie Hackers podcast a few years back, I've been dreaming of starting my own company to craft and release personal apps. So, in 2022, I took a leap of faith, left my job for a year, and embarked on developing those apps. After one and a half years of indie hacking, I've managed to produce three apps that are now available on both the App Store and Google Play.

![](/images/interviews/sebastian/habitkit.png)

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

The inspiration for all my apps springs from personal needs I encounter in my everyday life. Liftbear, my first app, was born out of my passion for weightlifting and my struggle to find an existing tracking app that could satisfy all my needs. Frustrated by this gap, I decided to create a solution myself.

Meanwhile, my second app, HabitKit, started as a side project. I was seeking a habit tracking app that could visualize all my habits in one place using a GitHub-like consistency grid. Finding none that matched this description, I took it upon myself to create one.

Finally, my third and most recent app was born out of a recurring personal struggle. I often find myself forgetting about my past victories, especially when I'm down in the dumps. So, I wanted to create an app that lets me quickly look back at my last personal achievement. This way, I'm always reminded of my progress, even when things aren't going so well.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

Currently, my indie hacking venture is a side hustle, which usually has me starting in the afternoon. The first thing on my agenda is to check my emails for any support requests that need my attention.

Next comes the part I truly relish. Being entirely in charge of my creative process and products gives me the freedom to spontaneously choose my tasks for the day. Do I feel like coding a new feature? Fixing some bugs? Crafting a few Twitter posts? The possibilities are endless, and I love that flexibility.

I aim to maintain relatively short development cycles, enabling me to get user feedback quickly. The advantage of being a user of my own products is that I don't generally require external testers or open beta trials. I simply roll out updates directly to production and keep my fingers crossed, hoping for the best.

## How do you launch and market your app?

Once I've developed all the essential features for a MVP, I set a launch day to release it on both the App Store and Google Play - Sundays are typically my go-to.

About a couple of weeks before the big day, I start making some noise for the release on Twitter. I share screenshots and designs to gauge public interest, and this often opens up channels for valuable feedback. I usually incorporate this feedback into the final app version.

On the day of the launch, I kick things off with a Twitter post, and then trying to stay as active as possible there. I also encourage my friends on the platform to try out the app and leave a review. These reviews are incredibly valueable, as they significantly help boost my app's ranking on both the App Store and Google Play.

Post-launch, the majority of my marketing efforts continue on Twitter. I keep my audience engaged by posting snapshots from the app's active development phase or sharing recent milestones that I've hit.

## What are the future plans for your app?

My backlog of potential features for all my apps is quite extensive. I get a lot of feedback from my users, which emphasizes the need to prioritize my next steps. I'm considering undertaking a major Liftbear refactoring, using the insights I've gained from creating my other apps. I also got lots of cool feature ideas for HabitKit and WinDiary.
I also have some ideas for new apps as well, but at the moment, I'm content with having three apps on the Stores. My focus now is to focus on their growth before diving into the development of a new app.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

I've gained of lot of insights and revalations of the last year while building my indie apps. Here are the most important:

- ✨ Stay small: Embrace the idea of thinking small as a solo developer, focusing on creating a suite of smaller, problem-solving applications instead of aspiring for large-scale SaaS projects. Understand the diverse roles you juggle as an indie developer, from marketing and planning to design and social media, which means your time isn't exclusively dedicated to feature development. Set realistic expectations, acknowledging that building the next Facebook or Google is definitely beyond your reach, and prioritize steady progress.

- ✨ Monetization right from the start: Looking to generate some income with your app or service? It's a smart move to start with a basic Pro plan right from your app's first version. This helps you start earning a bit and paves the way for your business growth. After all, having paying users is the best way to validate your app or concept.

- ✨ Manage expectations: It's crucial to keep your expectations in check and don't hope for revenue and user growth right from the start. This way, you're not down in the dumps if your app doesn't blow up with downloads or if people aren't rushing to your Pro plan. Staying realistic helps keep you pumped and zeroed in on your goals.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I truly wish I had kept the scope of my first app, Liftbear, much smaller. After its initial launch, I continued to add feature after feature, causing the app to become quite bloated without a clear plan for monetization. Now it's pretty hard to transform the app into something more specific because I don't want to upset existing users.

## Are there any other products that you are particularly proud of? Could you share some details about them

The app I'm most proud of is HabitKit, my minimalist habit tracking app that displays your consistency in a graph similar to those found on GitHub. I believe I executed many things correctly with this product. I engaged my Twitter audience with screenshots from the early development stages, incorporating their feedback promptly. I then launched a very basic MVP and waited to see if it would gain any traction. Upon noticing that many people genuinely enjoyed the app, I began to add exciting new features such as a streak counter, notifications, and home screen widgets.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

I follow a lot of cool indie makers, especially in the mobile app sections: [@davidjoech](https://twitter.com/davidjoech), [@Dima_heyqq](https://twitter.com/Dima_heyqq) & [@Matt_heyqq](https://twitter.com/Matt_heyqq), [@metzgereduard](https://twitter.com/metzgereduard) and [@FlorianMielke](https://twitter.com/FlorianMielke), just to name a few. They all build super cool products and I find their content on Twitter really inspiring and motivating.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

The App Store Optimization (ASO) guides found on the Appfigures website proved incredibly valuable as I started creating my first apps. These guides provide great instructions and show you the process of naming your app and selecting keywords for the App Store, which can be complex for beginners.

In addition to helping with initial setup, these ASO guides also offer insights on how to continually optimize your app's performance in the store. They present useful tips on how to improve visibility, attract more potential users, and ultimately, boost downloads. Understanding and applying these principles can significantly impact your app's success, as the right name and keywords can greatly increase its discoverability among the millions of other apps on the App Store.

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Sebastian Röhl](https://twitter.com/SebastianRoehl)
- [HabitKit](https://twitter.com/habitkit)
- [Liftbear](https://twitter.com/liftbearapp)
- [Win Diary](https://twitter.com/windiaryapp)
- [AppFigures](https://appfigures.com/)
- [David Jöch](https://twitter.com/davidjoech)
- [Dima Rubano](https://twitter.com/Dima_heyqq)
- [Matthias Neumayer](https://twitter.com/Matt_heyqq)
- [Eduard Metzger](https://twitter.com/metzgereduard)
- [Florian Mielke](https://twitter.com/FlorianMielke)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Understand the diverse roles you juggle as an indie developer, from marketing and planning to design and social media

Sebastian Röhl


3, 2, 1 then we start 🎉

Welcome to the first interview in the Indie Interview series.

I couldn't be more excited to kick off this adventure with a familiar friend. One of the best thing in this indie journey is get to know other talended individuals and learn from each other. I'm lucky to get to know Kris, who makes great apps, share useful advices and is also a very good friend.

Today let's get to know more about Kris Slazinski. Kris is the maker of Skoro, a handy scoreboard app to keep scores for iOS, and Numi, a personal budget planner for iOS among other apps. He has a UX background, and is an avid guitar player.

> Learn, plan, but don’t let anything stop you

## Can you tell us more about yourself and what led you to become an indie maker

OK, long story short... 😀 At least I will try to make it short 😂 I always liked computers and technology. As a kid, I was blown away by Star Wars and a few other sci-fi films. I also always loved art, music, drawing, painting. 

I started Computer Science studies after high school, but it felt boring. It was mostly math and I was missing the creativity aspect. I decide to quit after 3 months and applied to Fine Arts Academy next year. I studied
painting (my major) and graphic design. I have a Master’s Degree in art.

![](/images/interviews/kris/paintings.jpg)

After graduation I started my own business: graphic design and... screenwriting 🙃 When I was still a student I won a contest for a screenplay and I was working as a screenwriter for some time.

I remember one moment that really stuck in my head. I was on the first business lunch with some big filmmakers and film producers and during this first meeting, they already started to plan changes in my screenplay. That moment I understood that my projects are not really mine if I’m not independent.

I also have a music band, Quadroom, that very long time ago decided to be indie. We wanted to have the creative freedom.

Going back to my career... I’ve been working as a graphic designer and web designer and one friend told me about UX. I started learning and took a new direction as I really liked that UX was more tech-oriented and how important empathy is in this field. I’ve been working full-time as a UX Designer for around 10 years. Last few years, for a big software house with big Polish and International clients.

I learned a lot and met many cool people. But there were a few things I didn’t like. As a UX Designer working on many projects, I was always involved only in some part of the project. I didn’t have as much contact with the users as I wanted. More stakeholder meetings than user meetings.

Another thing is that big projects take years. Long process, many steps, big teams, long chain of command.

At that point I was already thinking about building my own products, but there was still one last piece of the puzzle missing. And then one day, Apple introduced SwiftUI and wow! I instantly loved it. An easier way of building apps, with instant visual feedback thanks to Preview Canvas. I decided to give it a try. I designed some apps and started working on them and learning Swift and SwiftUI along the way.

It took me around 2 years to release my first app. It was over a year ago. And I must tell you - so far I love being an indie maker. I make apps, I design them, I have contact with users, I solve their problems. There’s creativity involved, I can use my design skills, I can work with technology, I have creative freedom. And I can release new apps and updates in such a short time compared to big corpo-projects 😃

OK, it wasn’t super short 😆 But something I like to emphasize - we all come with different experiences and skills. And sometimes people think that they wasted time on something. But you know? Later you find out that all the things you learned are important. Our experience and individual paths are important. And it makes us unique.

## How did you come up with the idea? How do you generate ideas for your apps or projects, and how do you identify the problems or needs your app can address?

The first app I wanted to make, Numi, was an answer to my own problem. I was never good at managing my finances. I tried many apps and spreadsheets and I decided to create an easy app to track my expenses and plan my finances. It took me around 3 years to build.

![](/images/interviews/kris/Numi.png)

When Numi wasn’t ready yet, my parents needed another app. During the COVID- pandemic, they were spending much time at home playing cards. They needed a simple scoreboard app. I said OK and one week later I released Skoro, my first app on the App
Store.

![](/images/interviews/kris/Skoro.png)

Funnily enough, this 1-week app is still selling much better than my 3-years app 🤪

Lesson learned - a more advanced app doesn’t necessarily mean a better business.

In general, all my apps are made to solve some problems. Often it’s my own problem, sometimes it’s a problem of some people around me. But always the problem is first and the app is a solution. Never the other way around. Every app and every feature of the app is an answer to some problem, some need.

I use my UX skills to decide which problems I can solve and how to solve them. I do research, I check competition, I talk to users, and I test my apps.

## How does your day-to-day app development workflow look like?

This is a little tricky. Making apps is still not my main job, not my main source of income. So I often need to take care of my clients first.

I remember when you told me that you have this routine - you wake up earlier 1 or 2 hours, before anyone else in your family and it’s your time for indie projects. I admire you for this. My days look more chaotic. But I have a few things that help me in the long run:

- ✨ I try to be persistent. I track my time and plan my tasks and I work almost every day, including weekends. I don’t recommend overworking (it leads to burnout) and grinding. But I just enjoy working on my projects. Sometimes it’s a few hours, sometimes it’s 1 hour. But I try to move forward every day.

- ✨ I divide my tasks into smaller tasks. It’s easier to finish a smaller task. I avoid procrastination this way.

- ✨ I release new updates often. Even one small new fix or feature is worth an update. I always write posts about these updates on social media. I also celebrate small wins and each small progress. With small tasks, you will celebrate more often 😉

There is a different aspect of this question - about planning the workflow for each project. I always start with research and design. I search for similar apps I want to make. I check how other people solve the problems I want my app to solve. I gather all kinds of ideas and inspirations. Sometimes you can get inspiration for your UI from an app from completely different category. Or even not necessarily from an app. Games, films, books, art.

I design first screens, first workflows. I also talk with potential users. Or just with people that have the problem I want to solve with my app.

Later I make prototypes. Few years ago I was using Sketch and Figma for this. Now I mostly prototype with SwiftUI. I test my prototypes on people around me - often my family and friends. When the app is ready for TestFlight, I test it online with my friends around the world.

I try to release early. MVP for me is a version that solves the problem, that looks nice and doesn’t crash, but also that is not packed with features. Very soon first users tell you about their feature requests. I add new features one by one, release often and ask my users if the changes are better, if this is what they wanted.

## How do you launch and market your apps?

I mostly rely on social media, especially Twitter and Mastodon. I also post on LinkedIn and rarely on Facebook, but my main marketing channels are Twitter and Mastodon. At least for the launch part of the question. As I said earlier, I update my apps often. I write posts about each update.

Also, before I launch a new app, I always try to tease people a little. I post some tiny info, to make people guess something about my new app (name or its purpose, for example). I try to make people interested in my new app without revealing too much.

To market my apps I work on App Store Optimization a lot. I research better keywords and localize my metadata and my apps. I spend a lot of my time on screenshots.

Keywords work the best so far. Most of my sales are from App Store Search. 2nd channel is Twitter. I post on Mastodon and LinkedIn as well, I build in public on all 3 social media, but so far the most successful channel after Search is Twitter.

## What are the future plans for your apps?

Currently, I am working on my 5th iOS app. I have many ideas for other apps, but I made a decision to slow down with new apps for a while 😅 Managing and improving 4 apps is time-consuming. I will probably make some new apps next year, but right now I will focus on the current ones.

![](/images/interviews/kris/4apps.png)

I have 2 main aspects to focus on right now: business model and building new features. I have a long list of features I want to add (some requests from my users but also some ideas of my own).

When I started a few years ago, I had a clear goal: learn to code, and release some apps that solve problems. I was always saying that money is not my main focus at this stage. Money is a great motivation. I am always very happy when someone decides to pay for my app. But it was always less important than learning.

Now I want to focus a little more on this. On the money and business. It’s still not the main reason why I make apps, but if I can manage to build a sustainable iOS app business, I will have more time and resources to work on my projects.

## Do you have any interesting lessons learned or tips for other indie makers?

Apart from technical stuff, design and marketing I would like to emphasize 2 things: expectations and networking.

Expectations - you need to know why you are doing this. If it’s your first app/project/ startup - prepare your mind. Building products is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. There are so many things to learn. And the way to success is not easy. I don’t want to discourage anyone. Do what you love, do what you want to do. But prepare yourself mentally and financially for this - you will need time to get what you want.

Networking - very related to expectations. Find like-minded people. You will learn so much from them. They will help you to learn. They will share their stories and their solutions. They will help you get up when you’ll fall. Use [#buildinpublic](https://twitter.com/hashtag/buildinpublic) and find people that have similar goals. Make new friends. Help them. Share your knowledge. It’s so much easier having people to support you and motivate you. I am very grateful for all the help I got from other indie makers. And very happy to call many of them friends.

## Looking back, are there any decisions or actions you regret not taking before or during the development and launch of your apps? Is there anything you would have done differently?

From the technical perspective - add App Groups support to your iOS app 😅 If there is even a small chance you might need it, add it in version 1.

If you are here for the money - learn about IAPs and subscriptions. Think about the business aspect early on.

Release early. Don’t spend years on building features that you don’t know if anyone wants. Build an MVP and test it with many people. Validate your ideas quickly. Move forward, don’t waste time.

Even though I would now make these and a few other things differently, I don’t necessarily regret my choices. I learned a lot. So I would say - learn, plan, but don’t let anything stop you. Do your thing. Move forward. Release your app. There is no better way to learn how to release your app than actually releasing your app.

## Are there any indie makers or creators whose work you admire and follow closely?

Sure! Many. For example, you and your brother Kenny. You have a great portfolio of apps. I am amazed at how productive you are. And I like how you work as a team.

I have many close friends now in the indie makers community. Many people who I admire and who help me or help other makers. It’s hard to choose only a few names.

One indie developer who I admire very much is Matteo Spada [@matteo_spada](https://twitter.com/matteo_spada), creator of
Astro. A great friend and a great developer. He created an app I am using on an almost daily basis. I really like that Matteo doesn’t only build new features, but also has many great marketing ideas. He built a landing page with a waiting list, wrote an eBook about ASO, made an iOS app that supports his main product. His work is really inspiring.

I also love the creativity of Emin Grbo [@emin_ui](https://twitter.com/emin_ui). He has many cool app ideas, he tries
many different things. And his UI design skills are amazing. His apps and app screenshots deserve a place in some art gallery, they are pieces of art.

## Could you recommend any specific tools or resources that you believe are helpful for other indie makers, especially those just starting out?

One great tool I cannot live without is the previously mentioned ASO tool Astro. I use it all
the time for all my apps to find better keywords. Astro helped me very much with promoting my app and finding new users.

Another cool product worth trying is WishKit by Martin Lasek. With WishKit, you can easily add a Feature Wishlist to your iOS app so your users could tell you which features they need and other users could vote on those ideas.

Also, recently I wrote an article on my blog about the UI resources that I use when
designing and developing my iOS apps: [UI resources for iOS developers and designers](https://blog.next-planet.com/ui-resources-for-ios-developers-and-designers)

---

Thanks for reading til the end. Hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did. Below are some useful links mentioned throughout the interview

- [Kris Slazinski](https://twitter.com/KSlazinski)
- [Matteo Spada](https://twitter.com/matteo_spada)
- [Emin Grbo](https://twitter.com/emin_ui)
- [Martin Lasek](https://twitter.com/MartinLasek)
- [Astro ASO Tool](https://twitter.com/TryAstroApp)
- [WishKit](https://twitter.com/MyWishKit)
- [Kenny](https://twitter.com/khuong291)
- [UI resources for iOS developers and designers](https://blog.next-planet.com/ui-resources-for-ios-developers-and-designers)

Indie Interviews by Indie Goodies is all about discovering and showcasing indie makers. We firmly believe that behind every app, there's an inspiring tale of passion, creativity, and perseverance. We're always on the lookout for aspiring indie makers to feature in our series, and if you have any suggestions or recommendations, we'd love to hear from you.

Once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep supporting indie makers, keep exploring innovative apps, and subscribe to [Indie Goodies interviews](https://indiegoodies.com/interviews) for more.

Learn, plan, but don’t let anything stop you

Kris Slazinski


As someone who has been immersed in the world of app development for several years, I have had the pleasure of witnessing the rise of indie makers and the incredible impact they have made. 

The indie maker community is a vibrant and inspiring network of individuals who are passionate about crafting unique and innovative apps. It's a place where creators come together to share their experiences, inspire one another, and celebrate their collective achievements

![](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2284279/249117121-744d4fa1-31ae-4a57-bce8-c49e7fd4c175.png)

## Why Indie

One of the most incredible aspects of being an indie maker is the opportunity to connect with other like-minded individuals who are on a similar path. The indie maker community thrives on collaboration, support, and the exchange of ideas. When indie makers come together, they inspire each other to reach new heights, overcome challenges, and explore uncharted territories

Indie makers have the freedom to experiment, iterate, and pivot quickly, enabling them to push the boundaries of what is possible in app development. Their creations often embody their unique perspectives and reflect their personal experiences, resulting in apps that resonate with niche audiences and address specific pain points.

Through this interview series, we hope to inspire aspiring indie makers, provide valuable insights for fellow developers, and foster a sense of community within this dynamic and rapidly evolving ecosystem.

## Interviews

In this series of interviews, we will delve into the lives of these remarkable indie makers. We will uncover the stories behind their journeys, the experiences that ignited their passion, and the lessons they have learned along the way. By sharing these insights, we hope to shed light on the diverse paths indie makers have taken and inspire others who may be considering a similar path.

Through these interviews, we will explore the day-to-day lives of indie makers and gain a glimpse into their routines, tools, and processes. We will learn about the coding languages, design frameworks, and project management tools they rely on to bring their app ideas to life. By understanding the tools and techniques they use, we hope to provide practical advice and valuable resources for aspiring indie makers.

Moreover, we will discuss the goals and aspirations that drive these indie makers forward. From dreams of scaling their apps to reaching a wider audience, achieving financial sustainability, or making a positive impact in their niche, we will uncover the motivations and strategies behind their endeavors. Their stories will serve as a wellspring of inspiration for others who are navigating the sometimes challenging but always rewarding indie maker journey

## Join Us

Stay tuned for our first interview, where we will have the privilege of introducing you to an incredible indie maker who has left an indelible mark in the app development landscape. Together, let us explore the stories, experiences, and aspirations of these inspiring individuals who are shaping the future of indie app development.

Indie Interviews